When is it appropriate to say "I've studied with X"?

topic posted Tue, October 21, 2008 - 12:21 PM by  Akasha
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I am not a teacher, but I am an intermediate dance student. I wondered when it is ok to say "I've studied with so-and-so" when putting it on a dance resume. I ask b/c I've seen that listed in peoples resumes (people I might take classes from) after taking a single 2 to 4 hour class with a world-traveling professional dance instructor (i.e. Jillina, Moria, Bozenka, Rachel, etc). I guess, as a student, I would read that phrase as the instructor has studied for more of an extensive time period than a few hours. I find that misleading in regards to their experience with that instructor or dance style taught, especially when they are switching from one dance style to a new one, one that I've been studying longer than they have.

I am not flaming anyone, so I hope all the responses will be constructive. I just wonder if there is "protocol" when listing what your experiences are. For example, if you've taken one class with someone, do you say "also taken workshops with: ...". Possibly following more lengthy studies with instructors.

Thoughts?
posted by:
Akasha
Minneapolis
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  • here's a thought- when my husband has to recertify for his job, and when I recertify as a personal trainer, we list the contact hours we have earned- I suppose you might do it that way for workshops- that way we can tell the difference between a weekend 3 hour workshop and a weeklong intensive with 30-40 contact hours.
  • I think it's a very good question and one I myself have pondered. I do feel that there is a difference in taking one workshop with a teacher and taking long term classes.

    However the words "studied with" as opposed to “studied under” does explain the truth. But as you have said can also leave someone to feel mislead.

    Even when it is not the intent. ............................and I do beleive it is not. ;)

    Then what happens when one person has taken many workshops with the same teacher because that is the only way they have access. Could this then constitute as “studied under”.

    Hhhhhuuuuuuuuuummmmmm........................

    I would also love to hear what others have to say on this.
    • oh, that is a good point. I would DEFINITELY think it was long-term if they said "under" as opposed to "with". Maybe I just misunderstood, and most other people get that differentiation?
      thanks for your 2 cents. :)
      • I don't think there is universal understanding when these vague terms are bandied about. What about asking the instructor if you can list them on a resume? if you don't want to do more details (like contact hours) and don't feel you can put 'studied under' you might put inspired by. I would also ask what the purpose of the resume would be- for a potential employer? for the general public? for an arts association proposal? different things matter for different purposes.
        • this would be on an online resume that potentially attracts new students to that instructor's dance classes. yeah, I've thought about asking more specifically about how much they've studied with other teachers, but I feel like they might take the offense on that, you know? "So how long have you studied with X?"
          • this is a GREAT question! i'm so glad you posted it. and i'm so curious to hear more feedback from folks around it.

            If it's for an on-line resume, i like the idea of actually listing dates, or periods of time, like a normal resume would do:
            i.e. from 2002-2005 studied with so-and-so. From 2007-08 studied with so-and-so. Sticking to facts is good. I doubt any teacher would take offense if you're honest about your training with them. And i imagine they would be inspired to know that you are inspired by what they offer to this world! The tricky part, indeed, would be--i imagine---if you misrepresent your education with them. But there is a difference ( i think) in saying: I am inspired by so-and so-.. or 'she continues her study of bellydance by taking workshops from so-and-so whatever chance she gets." than saying 'her whole bellydance knowledge and technique training is from so-and-so.."if you've only actually had 2 workshops with the person in your whole life. :)

            I know the problem is often times it all overlaps. For example, right now, this fall, i am actively mainly taking classes and focused study with Zoe Jakes, and Suhaila Salimpour, as well as teaching my own classes/workshops, and as always, going back over stuff i learned from past workshops i'm taking. (Plus, some other dance classes thrown in when i can. ) This past spring and summer, I would say i was actively studying with/taking classes and workshops from Rachel Brice, Mira Betz, Mardi Love, Zoe Jakes, FCBD.......as well as being influenced a lot by those people who i was most closely collaborating with, performing with, or teaching with, i.e. Rose Harden, or in some sort of a creative process with, or weekend dance camp experience with. As well as other classes i take periodically when i am in their towns, and who i am inspired by: for example: Heather Stants, Aubre. There was a 5-6 year period of time in my recent life when i was in Djun Djun & then UltraGypsy, and therefore studying intensively with Jill Parker. Although i definitely took lots of other dance workshops from other teachers during that time, and classes in different genres, outside of bellydance that have definitely influenced my style of dance, i would feel very comfortably saying that during that long chunk of time (consisting of weekly rehersals, classes several times a week, regular performances, etc) , Jill Parker was my main teacher. My foundation of Tribal Fusion bellydance technique and my point of reference for this art form was greatly influenced by those years and experiences. That is a chunk of time/life that i might put on my resume as a block chunk, with years/dates.

            I think it's all in the languaging. You can say that you're inspired by... so-and-so.. .Or that your style is inspired by your teachings from so-and-so... .. or perhaps that you continue your study with x, y, z, people.

            There is a huge difference if someone has taken a few workshops from someone, vs. if they have years and years of training under someone, or have studied with them for extended period of time.

            And then, there is the question of : well, at what point do you own it as your own? how do we take all of the study, learning, inspiration that we get from our teachers, credit them accordingly for their contributions and guidance, and then create our own 'something' from it, that is uniquely yours, and an authentic expression of who you are? The teachers that i am most drawn to (in dance, in yoga, in life) and that i most aspire to learn from are those who fully embody their practice. Who find a way to make it their own, let their own style come through, and add their own spice or style to it. (vs. just cookie cutter copying someone else.) For me, that is the scarier part and the more vulnerable part in the dance, b/c you have to put more of yourself out there on stage, in classes, etc. :)

            I'm actually thinking of totally re-writing my bio to have it be more about what is it that I am offering? Yes, who have i studied with and danced with over the years, who am i most inspired by? Who do i credit as my teachers? but also: Who am I as a dancer? What do i want to share? what is my contribution to this art form and this movement?

            hmmm...food for thought. :)
  • Unsu...
     
    For our own (and dancers listed as talent w/ us) we put down as having studied under so & so,
    and then list something like "has undergone workshops and Intensives with such & such (list dates/subject and style/choreo)
    • I agree with Chandra. List your major teachers, but say that you attended a certain workshop with a certain teacher. This is what I would like to see in a potential teacher's resume. Also, include the length of time as another lady mentioned, like you would in a job resume.
  • I think 'studied with" implies that the teacher in question would recognize you on the street. To me it is a phrase that reads as an ongoing relationship of some length. Would they agree you studied with them?

    Otherwise, 'took a workshop with' is fine. I have been intensely affected by some dancers I have had only three to five contact hours (love that term, thanks Lara!) with. But chances are good they were not as affected by me as a one or two time student among many! Unless the teacher/student relationship develops from there, I put them in my 'workshopped with' list.

    Oh, and while I am at it...I am influenced by a few dancers who passed away while I was still a child, and only know (and study voraciously) through video. I tend to put them among my lists of 'favorite dancers' or 'influences'.

    All that said, there is no standard terminology for this in our dance form that I am aware of, so if it is important to you to know what your teachers mean by 'study with'...ask them. :)
  • I think each dancer should stand on their own merritt. I do not advertise that I study w/ Aisha Ahroosh and Rachel George and Nadira and Aziza and.. and... unless it is at a contest, then one does this to honor and recognize their teacher.

    Someone can take classes from a great dancer for years and still not be a good dancer and definitly not worthy of teaching.

    My "resume" stands on it's own... I hand them a card with my web address which has video's.. and awards page - that means more than a teacher I may have taken a class, several classes, workshops - private lessons etc from.
    • Thats very true..............I have known self taught people to be amazing dancers
      and some of those who have been taught in structured classes to fall short.
      When after hearing they were a student "X" I had expected something more.

      A dancer should stand on there own merit....................But how?

      Now I'm back to ...hhhhuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmm................
      • Also another thought...................

        I'm not so sure that the words "contact hours" is going to be any clearer without the universal understanding understanding of what that means as well.
        Upon reading it I'm not sure that I would interpret that as meaning you have had a workshop or class with them.
        If I was coming from the point of view of a student looking for a teacher with the "right" back round.
        At this time there is no standard or universal understanding.
        Since belly dance is an art form that people have strong opinions and believes over.
        To make it standardized (even if it is in language alone) is not likely it happen. :)
        I think it will be up to consumer ask question and investigate.
      • To stand on your own...

        People will see you and seek you out... if you are good enough or there is something in your style they see and like.. word travels and people find out who you are very quickly.

        beside most of the people who hire dancers don't give a rats butt about who you took a workshop from 4 years ago... they just want to know you are giving them a great performance and their money's worth.

        • I agree.... :)
          • I typically list those dancers from whom i've taken workshops or master classes as exactly that on my dance resume. Under Education I have a Trained/Studied under section with the teacher names and associations (so-and-so of the Suhaila S. company, so-and-so formerly of the Martha Graham Company, etc) as well as Workshop/intensive/Master Class section with dates.

            I haven't experienced much need for the reume since folks from various dance worlds tend to be pretty ignorant of heavyweights in the other spheres and my students generally are completely new to ALL dance. but there have been a couple venues that wanted a dance resume.
  • This may be a little simplistic of an answer...but here's my philosophy on whether or not I put that I've "studied with" a particular person:

    If that person can recognize me (either by name, dance name, or face) because of how much time I've spent training with her, then I would say that I've studied under her.

    If they can't recognize me as a current or former student (when asked or when I see them), then I consider that I haven't truly studied under them.

    Like I said, a bit simplistic of an approach, but it works for me.

    So, if I get to go to Artemis's 5-day intensive that she's planning next year, unless I come away from the workshop with the feeling that she would know who someone was talking about if they said "Cahira from Houston," then I still would not list her as someone I studied under.

    I really like the term "influenced by" when I don't know how else to describe who I've taken workshops from.
  • Great topic! This is certainly one of my pet peeves - while it's generally pretty obvious to other bellydancers when a dancer is padding her resume with workshops (because we know who is on the workshop circuit), it isn't necessarily obvious to others. Much of my training has come from workshops, so I'm sensitive about how list my experience. I lean pretty heavily on who has influenced and inspired me.

    Perhaps the key here is using modifiers - studied EXTENSIVELY with... and getting specific about hours or periods of time and whether the instruction was private/personalized. I mean, when you list your employment history, you don't just say I worked at such-and-such, you give a month/year hire date and end date along with a description of your responsiblities.
  • I specified the teachers with whom I've studied for "a year or more", and I used that phrase. That means I left all the workshop teachers and 1 or 2 term (bigger-name) teachers off the list. If I added them, it would be clear that the study was not extensive, because they aren't on the "year or more" list.

    I think if you haven't studied with someone for at least 1/4 year, you should indicate that the class was for a relatively short time period.
    • Ah, the padded resume. A HUGE pet peeve of mine. Owning DVDs or attending workshops do not count as "studied with" or "studied under.," in my book. Either terminology, to me, implies that a fair amount of time has been invested in the study and the teacher would recognize you. I agree with the opinion that if you feel the need to itemize these types of study on a resume, they should be carefully worded, " a student of the Dancer X style/method" if you use their DVDs regularly. Or list workshops and intensives you've attended as just that. I've seen resumes out there that look like a who's who of bellydance. Yes, experienced dancers can see it for what it is, but to a prospective student or employer this looks very impressive, (which is why, I'm sure it's being done), but it is misleading and I really think it is unethical.
      • "Owning DVDs or attending workshops do not count as "studied with" or "studied under.," in my book. Either terminology, to me, implies that a fair amount of time has been invested in the study and the teacher would recognize you."

        part of the problem is using blanket statements, and this is just as much of a blanket statement, just in the opposite direction. Indicating that you attend workshops CAN show that you are serious about your continuing education, and I do think it should be listed, you just need apprpriate qualifiers.

        Seriously, I have been at intensive week long workshops where I have had more contact hours than I would have over an entire year of weekly classes. I have also had private lessons that have given me enough material to work on for at least a month- both of which are important when there are limited continuing ed resources in my area. Maybe that's why I like the contact hours idea better. This is comparable, in my book, to the 5 week intensive course I went through to get my EMT certification- it is a 1 year course if taken at the university twice a week, but in outlying areas where they need more people certified, they do the intensives. We get the same information, we are expected to work just as hard, it is just a different format.

        I also do NOT think 'would the instructor recognize you' is a good indicator. I took Mexican folkloric dance twice a week for a year, and I really don't think the instructor would remember me at all. But I still use things I learned in that class in my world dance classes- I will never claim to be an expert on MF dance, but the point is teacher recognition isn't that reliable in determining what a dancer gets from that instructor.
  • I list both -- teachers of regular classes/sessions, vs workshops. I also specify if workshops are mini-workshops (2-3 hour workshops) or 10+ hour workshops. A 10-12 hour workshop is almost like taking a full session of classes, so I hate to not include them, but I do note them differently in my resume.
  • Juts tell
    I've studied with blablabla for x time
    and I've taked worshops with blablabla
    And if it is for your resume, include everything. Just make the diference of regular classes and workshps. Maybe some dancers that only do workshops influence more your personal style than ypur regular classes teacher.
  • The funny thing is I have never really been asked for a resume...................And as far as most of my clients go (I have acquired by word of mouth) they would have no idea who's who anyways.
    When I have tried to make topic of any of the workshops and or classes I have taken it is normally replied to with...... a blank look .......and a bit of a fake smile on their face......and maybe a "wow, really"........LOL..............
    For the most no matter where your talents have been acquired they don't care ............................Sometimes I wish they did care more ......but the fact is they want to be entertained......... The good news is....... I love to entertain.....it seems to balances itself out. :)
    • I've only had one student ask where I've trained/who taught me.

      A couple of years back I considered taking a formal training programme and they asked for a dance resume. I wrote it but never sent it. I listed my present teacher to my first, approximately how long I studied with them.

      Following that I've kept a record - (mostly for myself but if people want to know I have no problem with that)- of what workshops I've taken, date, teacher, title of class. It acts as a memory jog to what was covered and I've also found it interesting to see where my tastes lay and how they've developed.
      Just because I/you have taken a workshop doesn't indicate that we've 'learnt' the subject matter.

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