the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

topic posted Fri, June 26, 2009 - 7:50 PM by  Ali
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Last night I had a gig performing with Vagabond Opera, and a local burlesque troupe opened the show. One of the girls danced to a beats antique song, and danced as if she had watched a lot of Zoe Jakes on youtube and was trying to imitate, both in movement style, costume, hair and make up. The dancing was rather sloppy, and she was the only dancer to reveal her bare breasts instead of pasties. I have no judgement about burlesque, but I noticed when I got up to dance later in the show that I heard many more cat calls than normal. I also frankly found it to be in poor taste, especially since she has never studied belly dance. Really she was a beautiful girl, and if she were to put in some time and study, I think she'd have real potential as a belly dancer.
Here's my issue. After the burlesque troupe saw me perform many are now eager to attend my classes, including the girl mentioned above. Which is great, gotta love more students. However, I do not feel comfortable training dancers to belly dance for the purpose of stripping. Reno is still a small town in many ways, and it is only now starting to offer good performance gigs for belly dancers. I don't want to be expected to take it off somewhere, because some other "belly dancer" does. I've also been asked by one of the troupe members if I will teach a "Belly Dance striptease" class, and if I ever want to perform with them. I don't want to come off as prude or snobbish to these girls. They are all really sweet and I'd love to collaborate with them in another dance arena. I feel like I gotta speak my truth on this one and respectfully decline. Anyone else been approached with this in their town?
posted by:
Ali
offline Ali
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  • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

    Sat, June 27, 2009 - 6:42 AM
    Yes, I've had exotic dancers (lumping strippers, go-go etc. together as I really dont' know the particular diffs) but I look at it this way: you have to teach what you know about bellydance & let it go - I understand COMPLETELY how you feel, but when you think it through you'll realize you can't control or even try to control the way people use what you teach them. That's their choice -

    Of course, unfortunately, YOU will get fallout from whatever your students do to some extent (you got a taste of the most "instant Karma" in the show, even tho you didn't have anything to do with that situation!).

    I know how you feel, but I don't suggest declining to teach anyone who wants to learn because of what they might do with it. It's just not a good place to go.

    What you CAN do is just educate about context, etc. etc., and you can also share your viewpoint & why you don't like mixing the two (you gave a great example in your post).

    I've had people come to learn "how to dance" so they coudl upgrade their show (whatever it was they did, I don't know!), and I hope they benefited from class. I've had a super dance student use her training primarily for her topless career (or however you want to put it), and if that's what she wants to do, fine. But yes, I understand how you wish they'd just plain bellydance :-)
  • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

    Sat, June 27, 2009 - 10:11 AM
    Ali, as someone who performs both, I can assure you you are NOT being prudish to want bellydance to not be misrepresented in burlesque. In fact, in some ways, I see this as a good opportunity for you to educate them about the difference and the importance of the separation between the two! Sure when I perform burlesque, my bellydance skills come into play, but no one would look at my burly performance and think bellydance, nor vice versa. The way I treat the music, the costuming, and the movement are very very distinct, and while my bellydance background has definitely given me some great tricks to use in burlesque, I don't have to *bellydance* to use those skills in another genre of performance. And I think that is the task you will have at hand with these ladies--making it very clear that you appreciate and enjoy burlesque, but that the two arts are different at their heart and for different audiences, and help them learn how to distinguish the two.
  • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

    Sat, June 27, 2009 - 12:22 PM
    I agree with the idea presented here about an opportunity to educate. This is a great opportunity to explain that there is a difference and it is okay to fuse as long as you are trained in both but also may want to keep it separate at times too. I do fuse in some burlesque into my dance but only do it if I have the opportunity to be introduced as a fusion piece -- so that any new comers understand that it is a mixed dance. May be you can also explain how some dancers have really been bothered by stripping (actual revealing) with bellydance -- and to be sure and clarify when introduced. So I say...go forth and educate! You have a great opportunity to strengthen both dances here by doing so.

    I am sure that they will appreciate that as I have seen some dancers try to imitate burlesque and do not understand the energy in that dance....so it did not turn out too well. I have had strippers take from me and I am just honest that not all dancers will be okay with the mix. Personally I am very open minded but I do stress (really stress) that if someone mixes dances then they need to understand both and be clear to the audience. I do dance at some 'interesting' festivals and conventions -- I do not strip out of my costume but do a much sexier dance at some shows. Often when I leave the stage....I get a lot of comments about how many really enjoy it and felt it was even sexier clothed -- I then explain that bellydance does not strip. I gather from many when I speak with them that they see a certain strong energy in the dance that they enjoy and actually have often heard "now I see the difference".......so while some get upset with me for doing these shows, I see it much different and actually feel it allows an audience to see both dances side by side and see that they are different with a different technique and energy. All styles of dance can be appreciated for their own energy and technique -- I love burlesque and to be honest a stripper who is a good dancer with technique can be awesome too (I know some women do not agree but really it is not an easy dance when done well). Plus these interesting conventions are FUN! So just my two cents.....

    good luck! use it as an opportunity and who knows what will happen.........
  • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

    Sat, June 27, 2009 - 8:18 PM
    I have to heavily agree with Shay. I do take Burlesque, but I do it for fun and it's something I enjoy. Sometimes I will fuse a move or two into belly dancing, but there is a huge difference between the two. This is a great time to educate them on the difference, and be able to help them as performers.
    • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

      Sun, June 28, 2009 - 11:06 AM
      Thanks everyone for the feedback. I agree that I can't control what they do outside of class. I can totally see where belly dance would be very beneficial cross training for exotic dancers anyway. Many of those girls had pretty pronounced sway backs, and belly dance would really help them tighten up their technique. Thanks for the tribe wisdom as always lovelies. :)
      • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

        Wed, July 1, 2009 - 8:26 AM
        I have danced in a few burlesque shows but they are advertised and burlesque AND bellydance. None of the bellydancers do anything differently than they would at a "regular" bellydance show. No boobies or pasties or anything else. I would continue to show your art and maintain your/our integrity - encourage others to do it as well!
  • S
    S
    offline 37

    Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

    Wed, July 8, 2009 - 11:41 PM
    Ali, don't be shy about making it very clear that you do not want to strip and that you do not want to be perceived as a stripper. I do not understand why so many people feel we need to tip-toe around to not hurt anyone's feelings on this subject. It should be very easy for all of us to understand that there are those who want, like and enjoy stripping and those who do not. No one's feelings should be hurt by this. You do what you feel is right. You can even collaborate with them AND keep your boundaries. Sit down and have a talk with yourself. Figure out how you feel about what they do, what you do, and how you can work together. Never be afraid to say, "I don't like that" or "I won't do that". Burlesque is considered adult entertainment. Some people have to take that into consideration when making their decisions not only because of their concern for belly dance, but because of their jobs, churches, friends and family. Don't rush into anything and do what you feel is right.
    • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

      Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:05 AM
      Well said, S. I am not always sure we can collaborate and keep those boundaries clear, but being honest with ourselves about our desire or not to be blurring those lines, and where we consider those lines blurred, is an important and entirely personal decision to make.
      • Re: the old belly dance vs. burlesque thing

        Tue, July 14, 2009 - 12:14 PM
        I teach for the Girl Scouts, for our city Housing Dept (low-income students) and at several local companies who offer bellydance as part of a fitness in the workplace benefits.

        Because I suspect how it would be viewed by the general public, I avoid putting myself into situations where bellydance can be perceived as an "exotic" dance or as burlesque. I had been asked for several years to teach at a local adult novelty store -- but let's face it: teaching at a strip club or toy store automatically associates this dance with the primary purpose of the location itself. IE -- adult entertainment.

        I choose to teach instead at a ballet studio, the feeder school to the local professional dance company. I'm hoping people will associate my classes with the other "high art" (lol) classes offered at this school. I want students to see it as ART, just like they would view an adult ballet class.

        We have a new Burly troupe here that I think would be so much fun to work with, but I just don't want to risk the association. It's the same reason I don't let any of my students or audience see me smoking, drinking, slobbering on my husband, etc.

        Shay it seems you've done a good job separating your belly dance life from your burly life. I think your model is a good one to follow.

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